#3 Health Tech Horizons: Interoperability, AI, and the Future of Care – Steven Whittington w/Nas Vou

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Nas (00:10.604) My pleasure. Thank you for agreeing to come on to the podcast today. I’m very excited to talk with
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you and very excited for people who would be listening in to learn more
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about you and your journey and some of the challenges and tribulations that you’ve been
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through. for those of the people who would be watching or listening that don’t know you,
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I will give you a little intro and then what I’ll do is ask you to talk a little bit more about. what you do, if any corrections you want to add. So Stephen Whittington, I’m sure I
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pronounced that correctly, no, I didn’t pronounce it correctly. Whittington. Stephen Whittington is an accomplished leader in the health, technology and operational space with
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over a decade of experience in driving digital transformation within the allied health sector.
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Steven Whittington (00:53.675) Waiting turn. Nas (01:09.184) As a founder and seasoned entrepreneur, Stephen specializes in creating interoperable value -based solutions
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that elevate the standards of across, delivery across Australia. With a deep understanding of
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SAS, S -A -A -S and F -H -I -R, FIRE, I believe Stephen corrected me earlier,
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and Agile Methodologies, Stephen is passionate about fostering sustainable growth and innovation.
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He is committed to advancing digital healthcare to make it effortless and accessible for all.
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So I really loved your introduction and obviously we’ve got to know each other a little bit. And I know you have a wealth of experience. So for those who would like to
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know a little bit more about your intro, can you just tell me a little bit about your experience and what that all means to people in the healthcare industry?
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Steven Whittington (02:04.609) Thanks, Nas think probably the thing that I’ve focused on most over the last 10 to 15 years is interoperability. And that’s
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basically the exchange of data between, or digital health data between systems.
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And one of the things that I guess we’ve all experienced is when digital health started up,
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everybody had their own versions, a bit like when in a video. came out there was VHS and beta and then there was DVD and there’s tape
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and cassettes and we have the same thing happening in the health industry and that makes sharing data hard without intermediaries who unpack, interpret and then resend data and
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it might happen two or three times between clinics. So I’ve been working or chipping
Interoperability Challenges in the Healthcare Industry
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away at that space for the last decade to find a place where we can just send data.
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And it’s understood and interpreted on both sides so that translation piece happens. What doesn’t need to happen at all. Yeah.
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Nas (03:05.586) Amazing, amazing. And you’ve been in the industry for a very long time and across multiple different
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industries. What have you noticed that has been, so you talked about disruptive,
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right? You’ve talked about the health industry, like every industry has been disrupted. And what are you guys focusing on specifically that will provide something
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different to the marketplace that you’ve just shared with me. Steven Whittington (03:31.743) Yeah, I think the thing that’s different is one you touched on before, the Fast Health Interoperability Repository or
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FHIR as it’s commonly known, is that data standard that allows for information to be
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shipped between two systems without any hands -on, without any intervention and
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that will make a big difference. And in such a broken down way that all the
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components that go with it at the moment, we tend to share data in PDFs or large chunks.
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fire breaks it down to its smallest element. So a little bit technical, but the upshot of that is that we can move a health record from one system,
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from a hospital, for example, to a GP and then to an allied health physiotherapist or psychologist
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without it having to be transformed by any other means and it sits within their record. You know,
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we’re very committed to building patient -owned health records. automation in practices, also helping health tech startups by being able to white label or
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recreate our product and helping the industry as a whole by working on data migration.
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Nas (04:44.748) Amazing. And this is by no means your first venture. I think your bio undersells really your wealth of experience. So can you
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just tell us a little bit about, me and the people listening, like a bit about your experience, a bit
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about your journey, how you got here. I think it’s a very interesting part of your journey. Steven Whittington (04:49.622) You Steven Whittington (05:07.329) sure. Last time we caught up a little bit I’ll let
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you in on how I got started. I was very fortunate to be working for a quick service restaurant or a
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fast food place and doing a cadet chip management program when I was 17. And I was fortunate enough
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to get the vice president at Asian Pacific as my mentor and he sat me down at that age and said
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you know, we’re to draw a life plan for you, a 50 year life plan. you know, being being 17, 18
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at the time, I think I was back in 15 minutes and I had my plan already mapped out and he was like,
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yeah, that’s great. But what about this? And he kept saying, what about this and sending me out the front? And it actually took a whole week. So five days later of going, what about this and go
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back out? What about this and go back out? Long story short, in the end of it was a plan that
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that we had come up with where I would work in four major industries by the time in the first 10 to 12 years. And then at 15 years, I testing myself to earn a chain of quick
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service restaurants. And then to move on from that to more advisory sort of roles
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and finally ending up at about now to be in board positions or advising positions. So.
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The plan, unsurprisingly for anybody who’s written a plan down, went pretty much to schedule at 35. I
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owned a number of quick service restaurants in the pizza industry. I’d worked in agriculture,
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retail, hospitality, finance, a whole bunch of industries. And then every one of them,
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I’d gone pretty much back down to ground level and worked my way back up into a C level suite position over that 10 to 12 years. Got to that level.
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and then looked at what next when I was in my early 40s and when health
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and cloud computing were the two fastest growing sectors for the next 20 years. That was a prediction at the time, which has fortunately come true for me. So yeah,
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I started to start it again from the bottom, learning how to what made the
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health industry tick and also what made cloud computing possible and how to work with it.
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Nas (07:30.228) Yeah, I think it’s when you told me that the first time I was like unbelievably shaken by that level of detail with it. I mean,
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most people don’t even spend like two days planning a holiday. People spend more time planning their holidays, sorry, than they will spend time planning their life. And I think it’s
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an uncommon thing what you have just explained. And I think it’s an incredible thing. mean, obviously the power of mentors, right? That’s the thing that’s coming up for me when you…
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to have the right people put in front of you. Steven Whittington (07:59.681) Absolutely. Yeah. And to be forced to sit down and write out a plan that was weekly for three months, three months for 12 months,
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12 months up to five years. Every five years at five, 10, 15, 20, and then 30, 40 and 50. And,
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you know, just like a good plan and not everything is written out because it’s A to B and there’s bad weather in between or you have to divert. But it was being able to break it down in a way that
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still gave you a North Star, a sense of direction. that today working from the beginning again in another industry was about,
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this is a long journey. I’ve been here before. I know how this goes and I know where I’m going. I know why I’m doing this. And then being able to pivot, you know.
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Nas (08:46.488) Yeah, I mean, I actually one of my questions was around like, if you could go back and advise yourself
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at 20 years old, kind of falling in that kind of benchmark, because I think for people listening,
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the audience is about other people who wanting to do something interesting or just want to learn from experience. was the whole purpose of CEO Insights, to speak
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with direct people. And I find obviously young people and people who are kind of Steven Whittington (08:49.003) you Steven Whittington (09:08.288) Mmm.
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Nas (09:14.808) either developing or further along, feel like you can learn from people like yourself. So is your advice like what,
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I know you talked about a couple of different, you touched on a few different points, but what would be your advice if you were to look back now, knowing what you know in this
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moment with all this 50 years of nearly 50, not quite 50 years, but a lot of experience.
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Steven Whittington (09:32.225) Not quite 50 years. Yeah, definitely. think there’s, there’s two areas professionally. The thing I would say to 20 year
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old me was pick and train your replacement faster right from the beginning. Cause I got caught in
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a trap at 20 being at the top of my game in the industry I was in being pretty smart about it. And
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And I got hit really hard at about 21, 22 years of age when I got passed over from promotion by the organization because they said, look, you’re a big earner.
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We’ve never had a bigger earner as you and putting you in a manager position would take you off the tools. you know, we’re bringing in this this ringer from outside and there’s nothing about
Advice for Personal and Professional Growth
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the industry, but he’ll be a good platter for that role and we’ll keep you here on the tools. I was,
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I was livid, you know, and then I, when I come down, I thought about it I was like, Nas (10:08.394) you Steven Whittington (10:26.815) Right. I failed because what I
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needed to do was identify my successor so that I can move on. And since then in every role I’ve been in, it’s like, who’s going to take this job after me? How do I prepare
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them for it? How do I not have that happen again where I get passed over or I don’t get
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the opportunity to grow because I’m too good or I haven’t built a framework. So for me,
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growing about since then has always been about building a team that was successful past me.
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and my efforts. And if I’d learned that at 20 instead of maybe 24 or 25 when I started to
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cotton onto the idea, then I would have been five years ahead of where I am now. And personally,
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I think the other thing was to invest in myself personally as much as was investing
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in my career back then, because you can’t get that time back then. I think, you know, build…
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Nas (11:19.938) Mm. Steven Whittington (11:23.649) building that sustainability that we’re so common with now that perhaps 35 years ago wasn’t so popular to dwell on.
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Nas (11:34.424) What do you mean by investing in For me, that comes up as personal development, but do you mean your hobbies? What does that relate to directly for you?
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Steven Whittington (11:43.125) Yeah, like the mythical lot work -life balance taking time out, not grinding so hard through the 20s, know, make sure you get in,
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you know, time to build that successful family life around you or friends or build a hobby.
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Just take a moment to, you know, to enjoy it and not just keep pushing on because, you know,
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I was guilty at that age of going, well, you know. Nas (11:59.212) Mmm. Steven Whittington (12:12.417) I’ve got a 20 year, 30 year grind behind me and I’ll do it when I get there, I’ll rest. know, thankfully I made it through there, but I
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would have done it a lot easier if I had rested along the way instead of thinking about it. And now for me, it’s really about building in, you know, the me side of things and how does
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business fit around that. And I found that to be just as successful at my stage of life now.
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Nas (12:18.162) Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah. Love that. Nas (12:41.538) feel like that’s something you’re talking a little bit directly to me and probably directly to a lot of people who are hustling,
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grinding and trying to pave their way, particularly younger people. doesn’t,
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someone starting something new or something that they’re really passionate about. And people are like, well, I mean, for me, yesterday I was watching a movie and I was like,
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as itchy as I wanted to do work, I wanted to get on, think about things, I wanted to create ideas. But I noticed like at times the most creative ideas come.
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Steven Whittington (13:05.056) you Nas (13:11.39) in the most relaxed states. And it’s like trying to put yourself back into that state to realize like,
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yeah, okay, I can take a moment to relax. The work’s going to still be there when you get back. It’s not going anywhere. So what kind of anchoring things, like how do you become aware
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of that? I’m curious for you, what strategies do you use to either anchor yourself back in,
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like to remind yourself, do you have a schedule? Do you plan that out? Steven Whittington (13:24.895) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Nas (13:41.282) What do you do to create this, make it a reality?
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Steven Whittington (13:41.663) Yeah. Yeah, look, I definitely plan. I’m pretty synonymous with that now. but in terms of work,
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I go hard. There’s a rule for it. It’s just slipped my mind, but 20 minutes, five minute break, 20 minutes, five minute break for two hours. Pomodoro,
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that’s the one. I knew it was Pomodoro. was going to say the other one, but Pomodoro method I find for me gives me that separation and just like you.
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I think the teams that I work with today, particularly the younger members of the team.
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Nas (13:51.308) Mmm. Nas (13:58.7) Pomodoro. Nice. Yeah, nice. Steven Whittington (14:13.409) They just seem to butt themselves ahead against a problem. And I keep saying to them, like, if you’re at it for three hours, just put
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it down and walk away. You’ll solve it in the next 10 minutes. but there’s this like, no, I’ve got to go. And it’s like, ask for help and training them to sort of like, go, you’ve got a wealth of
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experience around you, me and other people, put your head up and say, I’ve been working on this for three hours. Is there another way? Or do you know how to do this? Because invariably in the
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first five minutes we’ll have a breakthrough and they’ll go back and finish it in 10. Nas (14:17.804) and Nas (14:22.092) Yeah. Steven Whittington (14:43.457) 10 or 20 minutes. But sometimes
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if you don’t catch them three days into it, you know, what are you working on? I’ll say, which working on that Monday? It’s been working on for half a week. You know,
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it’s a 20 minute problem. So just not being afraid to ask for help. And I think nobody
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and certainly me or anybody else in a leadership role would be worried about having someone on their team that was asking for help and open to suggestions and then improving because of it.
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as opposed to somebody who just like kept it a secret that I didn’t know how to do this. you know, a week later you burnt through that and
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you’re to have to face it anyway. So you might as well do it two hours in. Nas (15:21.046) Yeah, I think that that breaking gives you
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distance from the problem, right? You’re able to go, okay, I’ve done it. I know, again, know what you mean, like working straight, flat out trying to work through something, like, no, no, need to
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break through this, but you end up becoming the broken one and the thing’s still there. So yeah.
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Steven Whittington (15:25.824) Yeah. Steven Whittington (15:35.649) Yeah, get up and move, go for a walk and it’ll come to you.
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Nas (15:45.472) I’m really interested, it’s not on our agenda, but I’m really interested, you talked about,
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you know, I see you as someone who’s very much been mentored and mentored others. What would
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you say for someone who’s building teams? Like thinking you touched a little bit about on it, building teams for someone who’s wanting to, it’s like the scale or create that,
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because there’s the fact is nothing great can be, nothing great achieved can be done in silo.
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So what are some of the things that you think about, if it’s all right, if you can share with us, what are some things you think about when it comes to building teams?
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Steven Whittington (16:15.435) Yeah. Steven Whittington (16:24.225) When I put a team together, it’s high for behavior and skills can come later. If you get the right people on the
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team that are going to share, they’re to be vulnerable. And most of all, you need to build trust before any of that happens. So in order to build trust, you need to be vulnerable.
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You need to be able to say, don’t know how to do that, or that’s never come up before. But let’s go work it out together or to build that team and have a goal or a purpose that’s
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greater than the collective to work towards because nobody wakes up and goes, well, I’m
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going to work on that thing that we’ll have done by lunchtime today. And that’s great. You know, I want to do that. You know, I always work for 10 to 15 year goals because,
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you know, then everything’s got a sense of urgency, but it also doesn’t have a doom clock running on it that has got to be done in the next four hours or five hours.
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and building, you know, I’ve talked before about Agile and building, you know, short sprints,
Building Successful Teams
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10 day sprints, one month sprints, whatever they are for you and give yourself an excuse to sit down at end of that and reflect on what went well, what you’re grateful for,
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what you need to stop doing, what you need to start doing and have a reset and then start again on the next little chunk of work and keep breaking. I can’t stress the importance
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of breaking things down to small chunks, but also for the team to be able to go. Nas (17:44.471) Yeah. Steven Whittington (17:46.977) Hey, we’ve got a three year build. Let’s
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grind. Or we got a three year build and here’s the first 10 days and that’s all we’re to do. If we screw it up, we screw it up 10 days and then we get to restart the clock again and go again and
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give people permission to fail and but be there to know what’s going on and get to know your team.
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Get to know who they are. There are a bunch of people you’re going to spend a lot of time with. You know, and there’s no, you know, don’t build a team around a star player, build a team of stars.
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Nas (17:55.106) Hmm. Nas (18:16.792) Nice. I really love the sprint idea. feel like that is something incredible that you said because you build out,
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keep referring back because I feel sometimes I’m still in awe of this 50 year plan. But I
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referenced this 50 year plan and obviously there was milestones, right? But there wasn’t the one
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milestone. There was multiple, obviously, maybe 10. I don’t know how many you built into the plan.
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Steven Whittington (18:41.695) Yeah. Yeah. Nas (18:44.226) But what I hear you’re saying is when you’re building out any type of plan, whether it’s team related or goal
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related or even just task related, you’re able to break that down. feel like for some people
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it sounds easy in practice and even I’m thinking about myself and I try to do this because I think that stops overwhelm number one. Like when you can see what you need to do or you see the next
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five steps versus like a lot of where I see a lot of people get stuck. It’s like, need to know what I need to do for the next year. It’s like, no, you just need to know what to do next.
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Like take the year, drop the year path. So how do you go about building these sprints? Like
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what are some things that go, like in terms of you wanted to help someone map out like,
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you know, their 50 year plan, for example, like what kind of milestones, how do you break those down into sprints?
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Steven Whittington (19:14.485) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Steven Whittington (19:33.345) Yeah, I guess the 50 years is a really long stretch, but you really need to know where you want to head. And that’s all the detail you need
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sort of that far out is at that point I want to be in this position and then work backwards. Well,
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what do need to do to get there? Where would I need to be 10 years before that? 10 years before that and five all the way back down. So, you know, pretty much for the next three months,
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I’ve got everything. I know what I’m doing week by week, almost. But every 10 days of the next three months, I sit down and go,
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how did I go? Did I move the dial on that? Did I finish early and I got to pull stuff forward? Or was that more complicated and I’ve got to reassess how much time it’s going to
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take. So that detail out 10 days or the next 30 days is pretty detailed and what I’ve got
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to do. Estimate how much time it’s going to take, what I am actually delivering for it
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and when I’m going to do it and make sure that I’ve got capacity to deliver on that. The further away you get, you know, just need to know that you’re going over there
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and it might be over there or five degrees to the left or right. It doesn’t really matter because you’ll keep reassessing as you’re going along, reassessing that journey.
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Nas (20:43.961) Amazing. Love it. Thank you for sharing. I want to pivot a little bit in terms of what you said and I think you touched on it.
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You you talked about one kind of error, I think fatal error, and said you’d be five years ahead.
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What kind of, I want to talk about significant challenges or failures. feel like failures teach
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us, I’m sure you can agree, failures have taught you way more about your life than… Steven Whittington (20:57.439) Mm. Steven Whittington (21:02.367) Yep. Steven Whittington (21:09.171) Yeah. Nas (21:09.738) or your experience, then
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your successes, they tend to just show you did good. So what are some sort of specific failures
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or significant failures or challenges you’ve had to overcome in your professional journey? Steven Whittington (21:14.602) Yeah.
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Steven Whittington (21:20.629) I think like most people when you face to a question like the initial thing is like failure, failure, And then on
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reflection, it’s definitely they’re the biggest learning opportunities that you had and the ability to be able to build on. I’ve been fortunate enough to work with a lot
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of early stage entrepreneurs who really bitten off more than they can chew. And I’ve gotten in there and been able to sort messes out. And it’s been a great learning experience.
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particularly when I was young, was like people go, you work in the fast quick service. I’m like, yeah, I was 18 years old running a $30 million business with 180 staff and I have systems and
Embracing Failure and Challenges
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processes to do that with. And I’ve been able to take that knowledge and move it forward for 30,
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40 years. So don’t worry about the kid behind the counter. They may end up the CEO that’s
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being interviewed 30 years later or 40 years later. But in terms of challenges, I think. Nas (22:10.871) Hmm.
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Steven Whittington (22:15.231) What I reflected on more was the opportunity, the challenges that come up is like, you know, I was in hospitality back then before
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delivery was a thing. You know, people went to restaurants and ate and then there was delivery,
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you know, and then I got into video game arcades, you know, the big old cabinets and playing games
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before home consoles became a thing, before PlayStation and Nintendo became a thing. And then I was in the music industry just on the cusp of DVD and it was riding high, you know.
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before streaming became a thing, before your Spotify’s and other services were in there.
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And then I got into video rental, you know, with the DVDs are out, running DVDs. And that was before streaming, before the Netflix has got into the world.
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And all of the players are in that space. Now, I did extend that one a little bit longer because I got into the kiosk rental game before streaming really got in there.
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Nas (23:11.343) yes. I remember that. Steven Whittington (23:13.953) That was a little bit of a pivot, but yeah, I got into that. And then, as I said to you, and I sat down nearly 20 years ago and went,
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where next? Because I was on goal, but the industries had changed. And I was like, what’s
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going to give me longevity now for the next 30 years stretch of my plan? And it was understanding
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that healthcare was a growing sector, particularly the aging populations that we have here and around the world. And also cloud computing was on the rise. And it’s great now we’ve got
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Everyone’s got an iPhone and everyone’s aware of the cloud and all the apps. In 2009, I was
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pretty much branded a heretic by saying, I’m to a healthcare system in the cloud. And they’re like,
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not on a computer that you can see physically and touch. I’m like, no, in an $800 million
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data center with armed guards and redundancy for earthquakes and fire and all that sort of stuff. they were like, you’re never going to last. Your model is going to be six months and gone.
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No, we actually build it. So the one thing I’d say the challenge in there is really, is really to
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innovate, but also to learn the lessons of what’s happened in the past and look for opportunities
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in the future. And I think that’s really become, you people say, how are you so knowledgeable? It’s like, well, I said, I have foundations in multiple industries and I found really common things, found
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really common things between all of them. That’s so I’m not starting from the beginning every time. Nas (24:41.126) You’re taking all
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of that experience and no experience is wasted, right? Even if it’s a terrible one. Steven Whittington (24:45.599) Yeah. yeah. I’ve been in startups
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that have failed. I’ve been in organizations. I’ve tried to help people and it, you know, they can’t help themselves or we run out of money on a whole bunch of other stuff. So every
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opportunity in that is a learning, but it’s never the end. It’s always tomorrow and we start again. Nas (25:04.844) think you displayed your mindset,
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part of the question, just reflecting or reflect back to your mindsets. You’re looking
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at everything not as one piece, you’re seeing everything is connected. And when you’re focusing
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on what it is that you’re trying to do, you’re not taking that, well, yes, I may be starting from the
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bottom here, but I have all this other experience to integrate back into this bottom part.
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Steven Whittington (25:17.793) Mmm. Steven Whittington (25:27.925) Yeah. Steven Whittington (25:32.257) I absolutely, and I think there’s one mindset thing that sort of set me apart. I didn’t realize it was quite unique until
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I’ve spoken to people as I’ve mentored or worked with them later on. And that’s been, I made a decision when I was very young, like 18 or 19, that I was the CEO of me. Now,
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even when I was working a PAYG job for somebody else, it’s because the company
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of me decided to take on that role. And I never felt disempowered because I was…
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Nas (25:49.73) Mmm. Steven Whittington (26:00.927) the youngest person on the team or the most junior person on the team because I was the most senior person in my organization,
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which was me. And I chose to be there. So to get on it. But back to your question about getting mind set shifts or to overcome it, I think, as I said before, getting really comfortable with
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starting again and every time from a place of more knowledge. For example, in retail, I created a
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Nas (26:10.936) Wow. Yeah. Steven Whittington (26:28.961) have a model for optimizing retail floor space. And later on, when I got to video rental, it became about optimizing wall space in
25:24
a video rental store. I’ve taken that same model and applied it to scheduling in the healthcare
25:30
system. So that’s a model that’s sustained 30 years of innovation. But fundamentally,
Being the CEO of Yourself
25:36
it’s the same principles that have been applied in three different industries. So even in industries,
25:43
there’s no longer a music industry, there’s no longer a video rental industry. Nas (26:48.3) you Steven Whittington (26:58.881) But the learnings that I took out
25:48
of that are applicable today, as applicable today in the healthcare that they were 30 years ago in
25:54
those industries. So, you know, always look at your past experiences and trends and then
25:59
try and apply them to something that’s new and emerging and look at those technologies and go,
26:04
well, you know, how did, how did, you know, CD stores, what was the rise and fall? Newspapers.
26:14
you know, data information, what are the common things in there that that that are reusable out of that? And I think that’s how you pivot.
26:21
Nas (27:36.502) I love the concept of, I haven’t heard that actually. I mean, I’ve read a lot of books and a lot of information, but I
26:29
think I would label that back to like taking a hundred percent responsibility. But what better way than to view yourself as an entity or view your experience as the entity and you
26:39
being the leader of that entity, essentially, like you’re the CEO of your company. And when
26:44
you’ll be coming, whenever you’re entering into some other world or organization or even this interaction with other people like, well, no, I am CEO in my world. And eventually
26:56
you became one, right? You became one, you became the CEO of the CEO. You already won.
27:01
Steven Whittington (28:11.547) In my world, Yeah, well, it’s a common, common theme. And if you look at my CV, it’s always been started as customer service and became a manager, become an area manager, become a national manager,
27:09
become chief operation officer, become CEO, and then left to go back and join customer service
27:14
again, and then go through the whole chain. And people go like, you know, I’ve never seen anybody with more internal promotions in an organization. I’m like, that’s because I joined to be the CEO.
27:24
Nas (28:22.43) Mm. Mm. Steven Whittington (28:40.929) I joined with that in mind. So it didn’t just happen to me. didn’t, it didn’t, you know, I wasn’t waiting around for it. I was
27:32
actively putting myself out there as I want to go and bringing people with me. I think
27:37
that was the real secret I learned probably 10 years in was turn up way one, make the team run
27:43
clockwise and move on and move on. By the time I got up there, everybody was going like, yep, he deserves to be there because I wouldn’t be here without him, you know? So that
27:52
Nas (29:01.016) Mmm. Steven Whittington (29:09.666) that really changed my career path. Nas (29:15.737) What I’m Nas (29:19.376) and courses. now books,
27:58
I’d like to put a frame as like education or like where would you refer someone like what’s
28:04
the best piece of information. There’s information to be anything now other books or books are great that you’ve given to someone or shared with someone and why and why have you done that.
28:15
Steven Whittington (29:37.493) Yeah. There’s three foundational books that I bring to every team or every engagement. then I’m not only give them, but we’ll sit down and
28:24
read them together and discuss them. The first one is systemizing the how in a business. And I can’t
28:32
go past Mastering Rockefeller Habits by Verne Harnish. It really breaks down that communication
28:37
rhythm, how to scale a business. And that leads into a whole bunch of other reading that’s
28:43
that’s true that definitely that. How to make the customer the why I might go to is a book called
28:48
Fish. It’s got a couple of authors, Stephen London, Harry Paul and John Christensen. And
28:54
it’s about the the the Pike Fish markets and around the customer service journey there.
29:00
And I think it’s it’s a very it’s a pivotal book to really reframe business around the
29:06
customer. And the third one is identifying the who who does what and at what stage. is the E -Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber. And none of these are really new books. I’ve
29:18
been dragging around now for 20 or 30 years and applying them to new industry after new industry and after new industry. And they’re always relevant. But it really covers the how,
29:27
why and who, sorry, as a good foundation. And from there, teams go off and build or discover their
29:36
own versions of those things or implement bits that work. And then there’s a whole, you know… Ken Blanchard’s the one minute manager and a
29:43
whole bunch of stuff. Depend upon where someone’s strengths and weaknesses lie. Nas (31:14.272) Yeah, well, I’ve heard of two,
29:48
one of, I’ve heard of most of them, but I haven’t really read one out three. So I’ve got some things to add to my reading list here when I can carve out that time. I really liked your description of
30:02
this information. I have one question, which I’m going to throw a curve ball. I hope it’s okay, because I feel like a lot of people now listening, just a lot of people are concerned about.
30:13
Steven Whittington (31:20.544) You Steven Whittington (31:25.249) Fantastic. Nas (31:42.072) more from the employee market, but I think the business owner market in terms of AI, I think it’s such a
30:18
topical thing. mean, you can’t look past an advertisement on Facebook or Instagram
30:24
without seeing something around AI. What are your thoughts as someone who’s been
30:29
in business for so long and seen so many things disrupted for so long? I’d really just love to,
30:36
if you could just give us two minutes on, just tell me about AI and your experience with it. Steven Whittington (32:09.343) Yeah, I was here. not going away. So learn how
30:44
it’s a tool and you have to use it. Everybody’s got access to amazing computing power these days.
30:50
And, you know, it’s the same. The analogy is the same as when computers or personal computers first
30:56
came out. People turned them on in their lounge room and looked at them and go, what’s what does it do? How does it work? know, and I know today’s a bit the same like two people using other
31:08
natural language chat bot or something like that are going to get two different results out of it. So really learn how to write prompts on the wall in front of me is posted notes with prompt
31:18
suggestions for different outcomes in AI. AI has really accelerated my consulting business and the
31:25
work I do. It’s automated a lot of low hanging fruit tasks. It’s given me more time to think
31:30
about it. But you’ve got to write, you’ve got to understand which model to use for what outcome.
31:36
and how to get the best out of prompts. And if I get a suggestion for anybody who wants to dabble in AI, so go into any of popular chat bot, the chat AIs and ask it, want to develop my business,
31:50
ask me 20 questions about my business, and then have it give you the 20 questions,
31:55
give it back the answer, and then keep asking it for questions. A lot of people write prompts,
32:00
rewrite this blog, a blog, a chat, instead of saying, I want to review this blogger chat. When you’ve reviewed it,
32:08
ask me if you’re ready. And when you’re ready, ask it, what should I ask you about this blogger chat to improve it? And then interact with it as if it’s there. You’ll
The Role of AI in Business
32:17
find that it’ll make you think differently and you’ll do it. I AI automation will only
32:25
take care of systems that work. If you put a broken system into an automation or an AI.
32:32
big data model, you’re going to get more broken out on the other side. We’ve already learned that. I think intelligence and having the inquisitive mind to be able
32:42
to ask it and then reason with the data that gives you back and say, no, that’s not right. I want to look at it this way. We’ll make a difference. I hope that’s been a good answer,
32:50
but I’m really excited about the opportunities with it. But I also think humanity, you know, if it frees me up to spend more time with my family, my grandkids.
32:59
Nas (34:22.456) That’s perfect. Steven Whittington (34:30.241) if it, at the moment, seems to be chipping about 10 to 12 hours a week out of my life. you know, I’ve got this other little mission that,
33:06
you know, when I hit 50, I was like every year I want to work 30 minutes less a week. you know, and I was at 80 hours or plus back then. and I’m, down under under 50 now and I’m
33:17
well ahead of the 30 minutes a week for it is, but I want to keep doing that, which means I’ve got to be inquisitive about finding ways to, you know, to get more out of less.
33:27
Nas (34:50.296) I’m Steven Whittington (35:00.385) And that’s through leveraging and building those systems. But I’ve got prompts set up where I feed similar information in and it just keeps
33:37
giving me new information back. And I the prompts where I look at a new problem. I’ll be like,
33:42
how would you tackle this problem? Give me 50 ways to tackle it. And then give me the top five. Now give me the top three. It helps speed up that thinking process where I would
33:51
sit with a whiteboard for a week and try and work something out. I can do it in 20, 30 minutes now.
33:56
Nas (35:17.634) Mm. Nas (35:21.164) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Steven Whittington (35:29.417) and then pause, go away and come back to it and look at that again and go, yeah, absolutely.
34:05
Nas (35:29.526) Yeah. It’s, it’s yeah. Pomodoro. Wow. Wow. I think what I’m hearing you say is two things. Systems. Make sure you use AI for
34:12
systems and process repetitive tasks. Stuff that you don’t want to do. Stuff where you can be focusing with your family or with your loved ones or hobbies or give you,
34:21
give you time back in two, which I think I’ve noticed this a lot. And when I first noticed AI come out, I was like, wow, this is a huge opportunity from a critical
34:29
thinking aspect. Because I critical thinking in general, problem solving is probably one of the hardest skills that AI can’t solve yet. But you can use it as a tool to then like you talking to
34:40
you or you talking to a very, very, very smart version of someone that you want that you, like to, I make the analysis like you’re talking to you. You can have that two
34:49
way monologue. mean, for me, I find it very difficult to think inside my mind. Steven Whittington (36:23.318) Yeah. Nas (36:27.254) I know that sounds weird for some people, I have this thing where I much will work out a problem talking or
Systemizing and Automating with AI
35:00
having it something reflect back so I can see something. And I find that amazing for me. Steven Whittington (36:32.693) Yeah. Yeah. Steven Whittington (36:37.963) Well, the knowledge that you
35:05
contain is limited. I’ve always found as a young person even, you know, asking my grandparents or
35:12
uncles or older people and like, you know, I’d be in 1980s or 1990s in the PC world and I’d be asking them and my grandfather was a shareholder on the property. But, you know,
35:21
that sort of practical skills, how do you run the team or how do you do this? Or if you ever had a problem where someone’s like that and I can take what was relatable out of that story and go,
35:31
Nas (36:41.622) Mm. Steven Whittington (37:06.523) you know, and the common thing is go and ask other people, which right back to the beginning of this segment was if you’re stuck,
35:37
put your hand up and say, I’m stuck and then start asking people, I have got this problem. Do you know how to fix it? Do you know how to fix it? Do you know how to fix it? Have you
35:43
been here before? And someone might either give you the answer is like, right now I’ve learned something or I might tell you how it didn’t work before. And you’ve eliminated 50 ways
35:51
of not going about the problem. But for me, it’s always been not about having that. shit.
35:58
I better work it out myself so nobody knows I don’t know the answer to this or didn’t know the answer. There’s plenty of meetings I walk into today, know, big rooms full of
36:06
really smart people and I’m going, I’m in the right place. I’ve got a problem. Does anybody know how to help me? And I think, and that’s the only way you get by and learning, okay,
36:16
well, they fixed it last time. I’ll go and ask them again and maybe I can return the favor, if not to them, to someone else along the way. And that’s all the best you can hope for, guess.
36:26
Nas (37:48.129) Eh. Nas (38:03.861) Brilliant, I love it. How can people find you, learn more about what you do? What would you like to share with people,
36:35
how they could get in contact with you or support your mission and your business? Steven Whittington (38:15.393) Look, the easiest way to get a hold of me is through LinkedIn. Jumped on the LinkedIn profile. I’m generally,
36:44
I’ll meet just about everybody that asks for some time for 15, 20, 30 minutes. And some of
36:50
those conversations have gone on to days and weeks and years of conversation. Sometimes I’ve ended up on podcasts as a result of it in this case. But there’s people who had a meeting
37:02
today with a gentleman that I met six years ago from India who was a developer, young developer.
37:07
Nas (38:38.54) Thanks. Steven Whittington (38:45.505) And I said, you know, go and do these things and then we’ll have to go. Today we’re doing business together. know,
37:14
who wouldn’t have, who would have thought about that 25, 30 years ago, but, you know,
37:20
ask, reach out the whisk and say, it’s like, not now, maybe later or, but generally I’ll make the space to do that. And if you’re interested in the health, moving the health tech space,
37:31
you want to talk to somebody who, who’s found a way for it to be sustainable and go along time.
37:37
Happy to talk to me or if I can connect you to somebody in your particular space. Yeah,
37:43
and also pretty diverse. haven’t talked about it much, but in the mental health space in Australia, I own and operate a number of clinics. I work with number of psychologists,
37:52
or thousands of psychologists, in helping them grow their business and reach out as well. So mental health’s a bit of a passion of mine as well.
37:58
Nas (39:37.752) Thank you so much for that. We’ll make sure we post all those links and all that information in the show
38:05
notes so people can get access, they can find you. I just want to say personally and for everyone on behalf of everyone, we’re so pleased and very thank you for being so
38:14
gracious with your time and your knowledge and your wealth of experience. I mean, it’s a privilege to talk with you and learn from you and just you’ve become someone who I think is
Connect with Stephen Whittington on LinkedIn
38:26
Steven Whittington (39:47.905) Fantastic. Nas (40:06.498) someone very much leading the way in their industry. And I’m very excited to continue a dialogue with you and hopefully we
38:33
can get you back. Because I want to ask you like a hundred more questions. we’ll just have to, we’ll have to, we’ve run out of time. So we’ll leave it there. Thank you for coming and been a pleasure.
38:43
Steven Whittington (40:16.811) Yeah. Steven Whittington (40:20.747) Definitely. Likewise, it’s always a privilege to speak to you as well. Nas (40:27.384) Thank you, Stephen.